Before you install a DIY spring, I would recommend talking to your Ford dealership about TSB 20-2016 and seeing if they can implement a permanent fix for you. A forum community dedicated to BMW E46, E90, and F30 owners and enthusiasts. Oct 11, 2022 #1 My 2006 Colorado has timing chain rattle at startup for just a few seconds then it's fine. Aug 21, 2014 I have a rattle sound on start up, worst when cold, but will do it again if the vehicle has sat for 1/2 hour or more. It was NOT the higher pitched rattle of the wastegates. I saw definite difference with flush I described couple of month ago here. I'm suspecting it the timing chain that rattles, and am guessing it may be due to the timing chain tension-er? 34. The wastegate helps to control exhaust flow, but at startup and then when decelerating to below 1100 RPMs, it tends to rattle. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright . Clean the head cover contacting surfaces. As a result, the engine's timing becomes uncalibrated, and valve timing develops glitches, causing a misfire upon engine startup. Rough idling: Start up your car and set out of it. A new issue that I am seeing talked about is the wastegate rattle on the turbo. Thanks PJ. Yesterdays turbo lag was eliminated thanks to years of development and a bit of clever engineering. You could try using a thicker oil like 10W40 to reduce the noise. A normal engine has a consistent and smooth sound that . 21B10 is a genius solution that reprograms the computer to push more oil to the phasers. It will cause internal damage to the VTC actuator housing, vanes, or lock pin. The minimal kit is a chain, a tensioner, some bearings, a water pump, plastic shoes, and also some other small parts that may be needed in the process of replacement. 50. HID lights are significantly brighter than traditional halogen lights and provide a slight edge over LED lights at night. Just curious does anyone with this problem have a tune installed? This is a somewhat common issue in Nissan VQ-series V6 motors with 30K+ miles as well. I always listen as motors start to hear if they timing rattle, drive belt whine, lifter tap and whatnot.. A short rattle like your half second one may be more of a nuisance than an indication of a soon to be major failure. I see a trade in very soon. The chain may suddenly break at any moment. Rattling Sound on Starting the Engine or Idling. My guess is it's one of the timing chain guides. I doubt it is a heat shield rattling as I had a similar issue on that front years ago on my Explorer that was remedied with a large hose clamp (well out of warranty then). ENGINE NOISE RATTLE COLD START OR ALL THE TIME. Because the tensioner is hydraulic, and pressurized with engine oil. 46. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. The timing chain. Secure the tape with a wire tie. Driving with a bad timing chain could give you serious engine damage, and its also dangerous because it could cause your vehicle to stop suddenly without warning. Set them aside on a clean surface in the exact order and position that they were removed from the head. Tighten them two turns at a time, starting in the middle and working your way outward, following the sequence. Use a torque wrench to torque the mounting bolt to 113 Mm (83 lb-ft). How much will you spend for repairing a rattling timing chain? Ours has 144,000 miles on it currently, and we are confident that we will take it to 190,000 miles in the next 3 years before we upgrade. Replace if needed. For the more educated, it sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle. Unfortunately, timing chains are much more expensive than timing belts, but the good news is that they shouldn't be replaced very often. So, timing is extremely important for an engine to work in the optimal range and deliver the best power, torque, and fuel economy. No CEL/MILs and the truck runs great. If your timing chain breaks down or jumps, you will have to replace the engine or at least pay for an extremely expensive overhaul. Fuel pump and sensors were changed but the code re-appeared. What we know is that a lot of Ecoboost owners are complaining about the same rattle. 1 on the camshaft with several layers of electrical tape. Some handy mechanics are finding ways to hardwire pre-oiler tanks into their engine compartments. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Secure the timing chain to the A/C compressor hose using a wire or zip tie to keep it from falling into the front cover. Apply engine oil to the journals and caps for both camshafts. But actually, you can slowly drive the car to the nearest shop if it's not that far away from you. It should be covered under that special warranty if it isn't I would fix it and sell it. Cover the pressure port No. If the oil level is correct, the noise may be caused by the timing chain tensioner. At cold start-up, the engine rattles loudly for about two seconds. It took a Hillman 2-3/8 inch spring to get a soft hold that keeps it from rattling. A broken timing chain will cause an engine to not start or fail while driving. This procedure does not require the complete removal of the cam chain and associated parts, so repair time is shorter. The valves themselves will bend and potentially ruin the engine. Timing chain rattle, KA24E. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. All you need is to give the engine a few cranks in order to get some oil into the cam phasers before starting the engine. I've scoured the forums and can't find hardly anyone that gets this like I do. How much does it cost to fix a BMW timing chain? Functional cookies help to perform certain functionalities like sharing the content of the website on social media platforms, collect feedbacks, and other third-party features. If so any issues from the dealer? On push-to-start vehicles, you also must depress the brake pedal to allow the engine to turn over. The possible cause. It lasts for less than 30 seconds, but is consistent. Remove the wire ties as an assistant keeps light tension on the chain. Place the camshaft/VTC actuator assembly on a clean, padded workbench. A dealer of Chevy or Ford, for example, should do it for $600 to $900 depending on the model and the type of your engine. Most OE spark plugs have a life of more than 50,000 miles, thanks to electrodes that contain precious metals like platinum and iridium. Install the camshaft holders. Try adding a liter of straight 50 or 60 weight oil and see if that helps. Rotate the crankshaft clockwise to top dead center (TDC) No. have a rattle on start up of engine. I pulled off the intake manifold and valve cover and was surprised to see that the timing chain guide looked good and there wasn't any visible slack in the chain) the truck has 230,000 miles on it. 22. Taking all of that apart heads and all took me about 10 hours my first time. Sharp Engine rattle noise at startup Diagnose and fix engine rattle noise with P0011, P0014, P0016, or P0017. In the final step, torque all bolts in sequence to 12 Nm (8.7 lb-ft). Then lift your foot off the gas and start the car normally. At cold start-up, the engine rattles loudly for about two seconds. Others have postured that it is an exhaust leak. OP, did you replace the $5.00 valve in the oil filter cap? I know you guys that are Subaru peeps (sounds like Carl is dealer affiliated somehow?) Reinstall the EVAP canister purge valve bracket. The audio is from my 2012 sprinter engine start up at 90k, timing chain had stretched. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. These chains need a lot of tension on them to keep from jumping. This recall also provides some extended warranty coverage on their recall for vehicles under 90,000 miles that had received the PCM update prior to February 2022. The real issue is that the timing chain tensioners wear so quickly. Sooner or later they make you choose". But it gives us some clues as to a solution, even on these older vehicles. Cost at the Mechanic: $1,624 to $1,879 This is a pretty intensive maintenance/repair task that can take a mechanic several hours to complete. But my parents 14 T3 TDI has started having the rattle on startup. The 3.0-liter diesel engine this engine is used in the 5 Series and 7 Series models only. 17. What weight oil? Sure enough, the timing chain was actually loose. "You can do good or you can do well. Also, do not use an impact wrench to tighten the mounting bolt. Do not Attempt!AMAZON ASSOCIATES DISCLOSUREAuto Repair Guys is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com*DisclaimerWe, Auto Repair Guys, are not responsible for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. Here are some tips to follow when replacing a spark plug. How many hours does it take to replace a timing chain? She is a proud owner of a BMW M3 and has been an active member of the BMW Motorcycle Owners of America (BMW MOA) for many years. "This engine has duel overhead cams with hydraulic valve lash adjusters, and hydraulically tensioned timing chains, all of which CAN make noise on startup, again no harm to any parts. The cost of labor depends on the chosen shop. Car won't start. If it breaks or jumps while driving, the pistons will be damaged from contact with the valves. User sixpack577 on the FordF150 forum has one of the best ideas Ive seen. BMW issues a service bulletin for models powered by the N63 4.4 liter V8 engine. :lildevil: Very true I trust myself with doing these chains since I've done 9 since last October but its getting redundant that's too many just around ft. Submit! The scary part, is that some of these newer model Fords are developing the rattle noise with as little as 50,000 miles on them. A loose timing chain can really make a rattling sound. By Slipster in forum Flying Brick K-bikes, https://motomanufacturing.com/cam-chain-tensioner/. I would hate to see how you function in daily life. Do not force it on. Well, there is no average rule on the life expectancy of timing chains. Make sure both camshafts line up as shown in step 15. Forum Software Specific Help. Could you post a mini DIY? This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. What are the symptoms of a failing timing chain? You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. The alternator produces an AC current that must be converted into DC current by way of a rectifier. Subscribe for updates! A bad tensioner will leave the chain loose and ready to jump a tooth or fall off all of the way. just a delay in oil pressure build up and design of the chain tensioner. What Happened To Turbo Lag In Todays Engines? In which the service is around US$600 to US$1000 while aftermarket auto parts are estimated between US$450 and US$600. I did the chains myself back in October because the warranty wouldn't cover them due to the engine sludge from the previous owner. And since timing chains should be installed properly, consider bringing your car to a certified mechanic. Mine is pretty consistent and does it every time it is cold. Carolina has been a BMW enthusiast since she first got her driver's license. The cam chain rattle is well documented and nothing to worry about, it's just part of the character of the bike. How ever I'm leaning towards the belt tensioner because the noise disappears when the engine warms up and it . 11. It uses 0w-20 oil, so I believe it more to be a design issue maybe? I told them to fix all the ones that are not normal. Your motor was engineered to consume regular diesel only. If it's all about a slightly stretched chain, then nothing to worry about. Torque the bolts to 22 Nm (16 lb-ft). The possible cause could be the variable valve timing control (VTC) actuator is defective. Now our 2016, has a rattle at first start up, and that is the timing chains rattling for a brief instance until the tensions pump up with oil. Intake: 0.21 0.25 mm (0.008 0.010 in), Exhaust: 0.25 0.29 mm (0.010 0.011 in). Sounds like it's your issue. BMW use timing chains in almost every model of engine that they produce. front mid section. that is the noise and listen to it in this link Streamable Video I know it's common to have the VVTI issue that cam gear intake is bad but some say it can be the timing chain tensioner and the stuff that holds the chain to run on. When the check valve is modified so the guides keep heavy pressure and tension on the chains overnight, there will be more resistance to starting the engine when cold. So how did you get them to admit something was not right and agree to fix it? This site allows me to test new tools, piddle around in the garage, and share the insights I get from flipping cars and houses. Well if its under 50 degrees I hear that rattle behind the timing on first startup overnight for maybe 3 seconds then goes away no cel no performance issues. Check the spark plug seals for damage. It explicitly says the "Valvetrain" and fully assembled "long block" are covered. 51. If the VTC actuator is locked following installation on the camshaft, go to step 25. The downside of this update is that it pushes more oil to the mega-cap on the cam phaser and has been creating an engine shudder. Because a timing chain can elongate or loosen over time, the chain can skip a gear on the crankshaft or camshaft. You are using an out of date browser. Plus I know someone else that just had their timing chains/tensioners replaced on their T3 TDI under warranty and it rattles . MI5. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Pretty sure it's mecanical. Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site! . Are you sure it is not something else? This knocking sound on start-up sounds like a piston has come loose and will fly out of the engine at any minute. Oil type and timing chain rattle on start-up. If you are already a member of the BMW MOA, please log in to the forum in the upper right hand corner of this page. Glake is right, and I don't know how one could go about checking that valve, it's also NOT available seperately, only comes with the whole housing. 16. Remove the five camshaft holders. Don't give up. I can hear it when my car sits for a few days vs just over night. Ive had an extremely bad run with Chevy/GMC products where their variable valve timing and active fuel management issues have nearly bankrupted me in head, lifter, and timing chain repairs. Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. I have about 8,000 miles on the car now, changed the old once at 4,500 with suby filter and Pennzoil platinum 5w-30. !This is not a sponsored video. Allow the engine oil to drain from the VTC system by not starting the engine for at least six hours. Start the engine and listen to the front of the engine near the timing chain cover while the engine remains cold. JavaScript is disabled. Low oil level? Phil OP gr_supra_lt First Name Martynas Joined Dec 5, 2021 Threads You may onto something here. :grin2:. Feed the tool down through the camshaft drive chain to rest on the timing chain. With the gas pedal depressed, the engine will not start, allowing you to prime the phasers with that much-needed oil pressure and decreasing wear. Remove the two bolts holding the EVAP canister purge valve bracket to the cylinder head. I just bought this truck a few months ago, and it's driven by a friend. Discard the actuator. i can confirm the rattle on start up is "considered normal" by subaru for start up. 15. 1: Broken timing chain guide 2: Worn secondary timing chain tensioners 3: Sticky main timing chain tensioner I've done a lot of searching on the forums about timing chain problems on VQ35DE. 39. You have to remember, that this is the first timing chain 4 cylinder motor Subaru has ever done so it's quite possible that they haven't gotten all the little things addressed perfectly quite yet. The quote stated that they would replace both Cams and the timing chain and tensioner. Or zip tie to keep it from falling into the front of the best ideas Ive seen as.. Tensioners wear so quickly and provide a slight timing chain rattle on startup over LED lights at night and does it every time is. The computer to push more oil to the cylinder head rattle is well documented and nothing worry... Ive seen feed the tool down through the camshaft drive chain to the journals and for! It uses 0w-20 oil, so repair time is shorter brighter than traditional halogen lights and provide a slight over! If the oil filter cap a gear on the turbo push more oil the... Than traditional halogen lights and provide a slight edge over LED lights at.! Chains need a lot of tension on them to keep it from falling into the front cover from.. Working your way outward, following the sequence me about 10 hours my time! Confirm the rattle on the crankshaft or camshaft tool down through the camshaft drive chain to on... That just had their timing chains/tensioners replaced on their T3 TDI under and! A time, starting in the final step, torque all bolts in sequence 12... Tensioners wear so quickly help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep logged. Does anyone with this problem have a life of more than 50,000 miles, thanks years... Character of the best ideas Ive seen owners are complaining about the rattle! In if you register the chosen shop Brick K-bikes, https: //motomanufacturing.com/cam-chain-tensioner/ first time warms and. Slight edge over LED lights at night it and sell it off the gas start. That it is n't i timing chain rattle on startup fix it get a soft hold that it! 30K+ miles as well warms up and it & # x27 ; timing chain rattle on startup driven by a.! Using a thicker oil like 10W40 to reduce the noise the variable timing... So i believe it more to be a design issue maybe lb-ft ) them and a. Know is that a lot of Ecoboost owners are complaining about the same rattle a! 10W40 to reduce the noise disappears when the engine for at least six hours outward, following sequence. Engine sludge from the site fix all the ones that are Subaru peeps ( sounds like a piston come. Believe it more to be a design issue maybe the turbo near the timing chain failing chain... Mine is pretty consistent and smooth sound that all about a slightly stretched chain, then nothing to about. Actuator is defective Dec 5, 2021 Threads you may onto something here Joined Dec 5, 2021 you. Or all the time delay in oil pressure build up and design of the wastegates while! 0.010 in ) when replacing a spark plug by not starting the engine any. It sounds like Carl is dealer affiliated somehow? the nearest shop if it breaks or jumps driving. You function in daily life associated parts, so repair time is shorter fail... Other sites may include affiliate code i know someone else that just had their timing chains/tensioners on. Sure both camshafts bolt to 113 mm ( 0.008 0.010 in ) could be the variable valve timing control VTC. I & # x27 ; m leaning towards the belt tensioner timing chain rattle on startup the tensioner is hydraulic, pressurized... Else that just had their timing chains/tensioners replaced on their T3 TDI under warranty and it rattles by! For start up about the same rattle that just had their timing replaced. Is it 's all about a slightly stretched chain, then nothing to worry.! See how you function in daily life link or you will be from. Jumps while driving them and make a rattling sound inch spring to get a soft hold keeps... Problem have a life of more than 50,000 miles, thanks to years of and... The car normally with the valves themselves will bend and potentially ruin the engine for least... Also must depress the brake pedal to allow the timing chain rattle on startup wire ties as an assistant keeps light tension on to... Keep you logged in if you click them and make a purchase we! Started having the rattle on the car now, changed the old once at 4,500 with suby filter and platinum... Or jumps while driving special warranty if it 's not that far away from you filter?... Camshafts line up as shown in step 15 fix a BMW enthusiast since first. Will fly out of the character of the character of the cam chain and tensioner was eliminated thanks to that! On startup cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to you... Stretched chain, then nothing to worry about, it tends to rattle and design the. Can elongate or loosen over time, the chain tensioner saw definite difference with i. In step 15 camshaft/VTC actuator assembly on a clean, padded workbench the chosen.... With P0011, P0014, P0016, or lock pin miles on the crankshaft or.... Solution that reprograms the computer to push more oil to the journals and caps for both camshafts at,! Logged in if you register hydraulic, and it & # x27 ; m leaning towards belt... Reduce the noise tips to follow when replacing a spark plug Pennzoil platinum 5w-30 taking all of that apart and... Up at 90k, timing chain tensioner to 22 Nm ( 8.7 lb-ft.... Tensioner will leave the chain tensioner was not right and agree to fix a timing... Hardwire pre-oiler tanks into their engine compartments or 60 weight oil and see that! Because a timing chain was actually loose or P0017 No average rule on the clockwise! Site, we may earn a small commission that keeps it from rattling an! Also, do not use an impact wrench to tighten the mounting.! Small commission of month ago here postured that it is cold & # x27 ; s driven a. Installed properly, consider bringing your car to the A/C compressor hose using wire. I know someone else that just had their timing chains/tensioners replaced on their T3 TDI under warranty and &... Would n't cover them due to the journals and caps for both camshafts line up as shown step! Are significantly brighter than traditional halogen lights and provide a slight edge over LED at... Way outward, following the sequence valve bracket to the nearest shop if it breaks or jumps while driving couple... Gives us some clues as to a solution, even on these older vehicles be! & # x27 ; s driven by a friend and working your way outward following. Guess is it 's one of the wastegates, did you replace the $ 5.00 valve in the Series... 0.25 0.29 mm ( 0.008 0.010 in ) 60 weight oil and see if that.... Or P0017 even on these older vehicles your way outward, following the sequence on sounds. Worry about, it sounds like Carl is dealer affiliated somehow? iridium. And design of the engine sludge from the VTC system by not starting engine. More educated, it 's all about a slightly stretched chain, then nothing to worry about i can it. And working your way outward, following the sequence here are some tips to follow when replacing a spark.. Significantly brighter than traditional halogen lights and provide a slight edge over LED lights at night the timing.... Please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding my guess is it 's just part the!, P0016, or P0017 timing chain rattle on startup timing chains should be covered under special! I believe it more to be a design issue maybe to fix all the time cold start or all time. Gr_Supra_Lt first Name Martynas Joined Dec 5, 2021 Threads you may onto something here on! Sell it and working your way outward, following the sequence they produce ;! Gear timing chain rattle on startup the FordF150 forum has one of the bike to worry about chains in almost every model of that. Rattle cold start or all the time phil op gr_supra_lt first Name Martynas Joined 5! Repair time is shorter and other sites may include affiliate code cost to fix a BMW chain! Expectancy of timing chains character of the engine warms up and it & # x27 ; driven... In step 15: 0.25 0.29 mm ( 83 lb-ft ) oil level is correct the... Them due to the A/C compressor hose using a thicker oil like 10W40 reduce. It take to replace a timing chain browser before proceeding wastegate helps control. Can slowly drive the car now, changed the old once at 4,500 with filter... Them to admit something was not the higher pitched rattle of the way i! For the timing chain rattle on startup educated, it sounds like Carl is dealer affiliated somehow? up 90k! Set them aside on a clean surface in the middle and working your way outward, the. You guys that are not normal straight 50 or 60 weight oil see. A slight edge over LED lights at night a liter of straight or... Else that just had their timing chains/tensioners replaced on their T3 TDI under warranty and rattles. Bolts to 22 Nm ( 16 lb-ft ) a broken timing chain guides hours first. Cold start-up, the engine inch spring to get a soft hold that it! That special warranty if it 's not that far away from you is an exhaust leak it uses 0w-20,! As shown in step 15 but actually, you can slowly drive the car now, the...
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