Look around your water heater, pipes in attics or crawl spaces, piping across the ceilings of basements, and supply lines under sinks in cabinets. All I can really say is good luck! Another option is to replace polybutylene pipes with copper pipes. However, this is entirely false. Just got my inspection back on a house in Vancouver I put an offer down and turns out the house built in 93 has polybutylene pipes. However, there are two ways you can sell your home in situations like this. If you have polybutylene plumbing, your insurer may specifically exclude PB pipe repair and any water damage caused by it. To have a lawsuit for non-disclosure you must show seller knew and did not disclose. Posts: 9,889. Copper pipes also have natural antimicrobial properties, which help ensure a reduced risk of bacterial growth in the water pipes. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Repipe Specialists - USAState license info available in our location directory. What does polybutylene pipe look like? 1991 - document.getElementById('copy-current-year').appendChild(document.createTextNode(new Date().getFullYear())). Were going to look at both ways of selling your home and the factors that you need to think about with each option. The replacement can be estimated to cost somewhere starting from $2,500 and go up to $15,000. No, you shouldn't buy a home with polybutylene pipes. Some Real Estate Agents (representing buyers) won't show homes with PB pipes. Can galvanized steel pipe still be used for new water lines in a house? I guess small claims court is an option for getting the money we've already spent back? However, Re-piping is a long process that can go on for a few weeks and will also cause a lot of mess around the house, and no one wants to deal with the mess after just having moved into their new home. You may have seen examples of this on television. If you are a seller, you should disclose all known conditions that the buyers need to know about the property including the likelihood of leaky pipes. Replacing your exterior water supply connections can cost from $600 to $2,400. This often went undetected until damage had been done to the structure of the home. Has your homeowners' insurance company declined to renew your policy, because of those gray pipes you've been living with just fine for years? I'm assuming a good part of that $3000 was the structural inspection because, otherwise, you got taken. There is a place for the seller to disclose the presence of polybutylene. lending In order to know for certain if you have polybutylene pipes in your home, and their condition, you will need to hire a professional plumber. They do resemble plastic and to someone who isn't that motivated to find more out will just check off plastic as they honestly won't know the difference. By the 1990s, however, problems had begun to surface. Why is Your Water Heater Leaking From Overflow Pipe? IANAL but, I doubt you have a case to get your inspection $$$ back. Over 8,500 inspections completed in 20+ years. And again, in 1989. If you reach our answering service, please leave a message: we return calls in the order they are received. We're also wondering if they made a past claim to the small claims settlement--that would prove they knew. landlords $3000 in inspections and a lawyer seems insanely high no matter where you live so I doubt you'll see that money again but I would attempt to get your money for replacing the pipes. PB-1 is a high molecular weight, linear, isotactic, and semi-crystalline polymer. In your case asking for $50k discount plus $20k probably wouldn't work. They intend to sell the house right away after repairs are made. They need to have the necessary financial strength and a good track record of closing as agreed. Poly-pipes are well known in the industry for their propensity to fail. You could easily run afoul of these laws if you arent forthcoming about polybutylene pipes in your home. Eventually, this could make them liable for lawsuits from their buyer. Which water pipes are an insurance problem and possibly uninsurable? 16822 SE 92nd Danna Avenue, The Villages, FL 32162, www.thevillagesbestinspector.com Comments or questions tomcgarryandmadsen@mac.com, While we hope you find this series of articles about home inspection helpful, they should not be considered an alternative to an actual home inspection by a local inspector. This is true for a private source like a well, or a municipal water line. How can I protect my pipes to keep them from bursting during a hard winter freeze in North Florida? . https://www.polybutylene.com/realtor.html. Over 8,500 inspections completed in 20+ years. They were installed in almost 10 million homes at a substantial savings over the conventional copper plumbing pipes. In all but three states (Alaska, California and South Dakota), sellers aren't required to disclose deaths from natural causes. The second option would consume some of your money and time, but the good part is that it would result in a higher selling price for your home. The polybutylene pipes should have come to light during the home inspection or as part of seller . My SO and I have a bid on a house in North Carolina and are in the due diligence period. We don't know of any laws that would prevent you from selling a home with polybutylene piping (building codes don't permit poly pipes in new construction or remodels). Of course, the price depends on the size of the house, the number of rooms if you do it yourself or hire a plumber, and of course, the type of pipes you buy. In short -it didn't work. Initially, contractors installed around 10 million polybutylene pipes in homes in the US. Are you looking for information about polybutylene piping (aka Quest pipe, poly-b, pb-1 pipe, or just plain "poly pipe")? Its important that you get several offers from reputable investors so that you can compare them and make your choice confidently. More of it gets replaced during home sells because of the inspections than from actual failures. Polybutylene is a type of plastic resin. They will keep the property and rent it to tenants. We've even seen sales fall through, when homeowners didn't know they had poly plumbing, but it was found during inspection. Their business model is to purchase properties that they can repair or upgrade. Polybutylene (PB) piping was standard in homes built between 1978 and 1996. How can I tell what type of plumbing pipe I have? We've done many repipes, when insurance companies required it, as a condition of policy renewal or issuance. We never would have ordered any of these inspections, appraisals, etc. If they don't agree, though, we are going to have to walk away. I started HomeInspectionInsider.com to help people better understand the home inspection process and answer questions about homeownership and home maintenance. The seller's disclosure statement matters to potential buyers, so you should be honest about lead, pests, repairs, and more. If you have time to sell but you dont have the funds to make the needed repairs, you will probably want to consider selling to an investor. The choice to replace or disclose polybutylene pipes when marketing a home involves two sets of differing concerns: the defect issues with the pipes themselves, and the unique needs and concerns . We are in Florida and provide plenty of information about hurricanes and sinkholes, for example, but nothing on basements and ice dams. If you're still not sure, call us. I even suspect she might have known about the pipes early on (can't prove this). Going in to court with "He's a handy guy he probably knew" will give the judge a chuckle before the case gets tossed. The easiest way to perform your search is to let HouseCashin do it for you. Lately, we've seen a spike of homeowners contacting us - when their insurance company imposed rate increases and/or applied exclusions of leak coverage, even when there had been no claims or poly pipe leaks. Another significant aspect of buying a house with polybutylene pipes is the insurance problem that might come along with it. Are Polybutylene Water Supply Pipes Bad? Depending on your market and the condition of your property, they may not offer you full market value for your home. The contractor should also be responsible for obtaining any permits that are required in your area. The seller is always aware of the disapproval of polybutylene pipes, and they can easily choose not to disclose this information to a buyer. Call today at 954-734-7429 or 1-888-8-Insurance. Can I Sell My House with a Property, State or IRS Tax Lien? We will get it done for you. Polybutylene piping can be identified by the following characteristics: inch to 1 inch in diameter. Regarding the first option, the question arises: who would be interested in buying a house with polybutylene pipes? Would we have a case since they lied on the disclosure? You just have to know who your prospective buyers are, where to find them, and what other factors of such a deal you should consider. Similarly, it is always possible that things like this will get "lost in the paperwork", so it is best to make sure of the facts before deciding to buy a . Interior pipes are white and can be confused for other types of piping. They thought that maybe the pipes hand been installed wrong, were defective from the factory, or maybe even damaged by chlorine, fluoride, or other chemical additives to the water. Visit ourPLUMBINGpage for other related blog posts on this subject, or go to the INDEX for a complete listing of all our articles. A buyers mortgage lender will possibly require more extensive inspections that hold up your closing. Definitely negotiate to get them replaced if it's city water. When you list your house for sale, you will be required to complete a seller's disclosure. This reaction causes the pipes to become weaker and more prone to breaking. The first option would be to find someone who would be willing to buy your house the way it is. I am actually dealing with the same thing in Raleigh right now, although seller marked No Representation on the disclosure in my case. And when they do burst, you'll risk serious structural damage to your home and belongings. So it is better, and we highly recommend getting them replaced and ensuring that you do not have to deal with tricky situations of damaged old pipes leading to leakages and damage to your home. We are the nation's finest polybutylene remediation company. However, these small leaks will eventually deteriorate the area surrounding them and, over time, will cause a great deal of damage regardless of the size of the leakage. Sec 5.008 (c) A seller or seller's agent shall have no duty . We've done the research and found that not only would damages be costly if the pipes burst, but we would also have a hard time selling the house in the future or even obtaining homeowners insurance even if the pipes don't cause any problems because there is such a stigma against these particular pipes. No older house will come without issues and I hate to think of the poor seller being sued 5 years later because you found some asbestos tiles in the basement or a bad wiring job in the bedroom that weren't on the disclosure. Why is it a problem? Are plastic pipes (PVC, CPVC, and PEX) safe for drinking water? When used outside to bring water to your home, polybutylene pipes are either blue, black, or a grayish color. Facts vs. Fiction 7. Nowadays, people prefer to have PEX pipes fitted into their houses water systems instead of polybutylene pipes. There may not be any legislation compelling home sellers to disclose that the house has Polybutylene plumbing system, but the seller is aware that the use of Polybutylene has been disapproved for new buildings and owners of older homes have been advised to replace the Polybutylene piping. There is quite a common misconception that replacing polybutylene pipes costs a lot of money and is likely to break the bank. Is that truthful since polybutylene pipes would of been disclosed to them in 2018 when they bought the house. What are the code requirements for plumbing vent terminations? A home inspection will turn up any PB pipe still in use, and the current status of leaks or other problems. Seller Disclosure is governed by Revised Statute 9:3198 which requires the following: The seller much complete a property disclosure document in a form prescribed by the LREC. There are significant differences between selling property to professional real estate investors versus selling it to traditional buyers: When calculating their offer, an investor will look at the costs of repairs and upgrades, the time it will take to put your house right, and their desired profit margin. Our home inspection report just came back and it says the 1990 house has polybutylene pipes. Research suggests that polybutylene pipes are prone to becoming brittle and cracking inside out, eventually leading to leakage. Get quotes and review them for completeness. What's that powdery crust on the pipe connections at the water heater? Plus, since polybutylene pipes have a high risk of rupturing, they reduce a home's value. Once the pipe is old enough to have one or two hairline cracks, the cracks will keep increasing until it has many cracks, eventually becoming too fragile to hold its structure and breaks. Found mainly in the southern US. When polybutylene leaks occur in US plumbing systems, the leaks are often at or near connectors. The breaking or cracking of pipes means that the water running through these pipes will now have a way to leak into the houses structure and cause long-term damage. Like PEX pipes, these copper ones are heat resistant, but they are also resistant to corrosion, making them slightly superior to PEX pipes. As mentioned before, many insurance companies do not bear the cost of damages to homes with polybutylene pipes. Locating and working on existing pipes requires cutting holes in your walls. Also in 1989, a totally different design emerged which used flexible pipiing. That would confirm your plumbing is polybutylene. foreclosures We are not affiliated with, and do not receive any compensation from, any of the companies or products mentioned in this blog. Do you have to disclose polybutylene pipes to a homebuyer? The problem is difficult to diagnose, since even if the pipes look all right from the outside, they are deteriorating from the inside youd never know there was a problem until all of a sudden theres a major one. Messages sent using the form on this site, go directly to our email, which we check regularly. McGarry and Madsen's home inspection blog for buyers of, site-built, mobile/manfuactured and modular homes. How would your realtor know that if it was mistakenly checked on the disclosure. How do you accurately find a broken water pipe leak under the floor slab? Do the current homeowners have insurance? What you are complaining about is the process working. Since our founding in 1991, we've been completing residential and multi-family building repipes to the highest standard. As with the second option, which involves replacing your pipes yourself before selling, you must first inspect your pipes. Call our residential repipe division to schedule a free estimate for your home: Or visit our regular residential repipe site to learn more: Repipe Specialists - USA245 E Olive Ave #500Burbank, CA91502. How can I tell if I have cast iron pipes in my house? foreclosure Polybutylene pipes are often used with copper fittings which can also confuse a homebuyer. Also, many insurance companies will not issue homeowners insurance for a home with PB pipe, while some others will do so, but only with a large deductible for any pipe leakage claim. This option is much better than repairing the old pipes because the polybutylene pipes would not last a long time anyway. This article discussed the issues with polybutylene pipes and how you can replace them yourself. To maximize the value you get from the sale of your property to an investor, consider requesting a cash offer from HouseCashin. Historically, there has been debate about why poly-pipes have failed. Inside, your contractor will locate the pipes in your home. Polybutylene pipes were first produced in the mid-1970s. Florida case law provides that, with some exceptions, a home seller must disclose any facts or conditions about the property that have a substantial impact on its value or desirability and that others cannot easily see for themselves. It is now mainly an academic exercise determining why a specific system failed and/or if an existing poly-b system may fail in the future. They've had the house for 4 year so I doubt they did not know about them. We completed all our inspections (structural, septic, water, pest, home), the bank ordered the appraisal, the Realtor hired the attorney. The presence of polybutylene pipes creates uncertainty for potential homebuyers. Since these pipes pose a threat to the houses and the people living inside them, their production has been stopped, and it is scarce to find these kinds of pipes in the market. 0 found this answer helpful | 0 lawyers agree Helpful Unhelpful However, polybutylene pipes have since proven too fragile to withstand chemicals found in the public water supply. This can be a problem in the long run, as in the case of floods, your insurance will not cover the damage costs, and the burden will have to be on you. The square footage of your home (but if you do disclose, you are liable for the accuracy of the square footage). Although there are good solutions for re-piping now, it's definitely worth getting a quote. When this happens, weakened pipes will rupture. What are the pipes sticking out near my water valves? https://www.polybutylene.com/realtor.html. Why is it a problem? These modified designs used the same PB pipes, but with upgraded joints. I don't really get why this sub is full of people that think everyone is trying to pull the wool over their eyes. Many of them specifically require you to disclose whether or not you are aware of polybutylene piping on your property. The pipes would have to be removed and examined. It is important to keep in mind, however, that home inspections may not cover polybutylene, and that a seller is not liable if they did not know that the pipes are made of polybutylene. In summary: if you've actually experienced a poly pipe leak - the best option is unquestionably to do a complete, whole-home repipe. Buying Or Selling A Home With PB Pipes: Polybutylene piping affects a home's value. No Hot Water: Easy DIY Water Heater Repair Guide, Water Heater Breaker Size: Easy Wire & Breaker Size Guide, Best Laundry & Utility Sink Faucets: Our Top Picks for 2023, How to Unclog a Shower Drain: 7 Ways to Remove a Shower Drain Clog, How Long Plumbing Lasts: When to Replace & Costs. My seller, who built the house, actually checked off "polybutylene" on the disclosure, but the pipes turned out to be PEX. The kind of pipes you use to replace them, The size of your home and how many stories it has, Whether or not the work includes exterior water supply connections, the availability of the inspecting plumber and the contractor, if you have good weather for any exterior work, the average Days On Market (DOM) for resale homes in your area. Now four years later in the inspection report from my buyer a more dramatic statement is made: "Polyethylene Plumbing Supply Lines have been known to to be randomly defective and can rapture without notice" and the buyer wants me to replace the Polybutylene Pipes in the condo. Check for a gray plastic pipe under sinks or in exposed areas in the basement or attic. Honestly, I don't think that the sellers were being dishonest or intentionally with holding the fact that the pipes are polybutylene. This will involve having all your plumbing inspected to see if the pipes are made of polybutylene, and replacing them with pipes made of other material. The big problem with polybutylene (PB) piping is that it's difficult to insure. In the case of polybutylene pipes, the 70% failure rate is what matters. What is Polybutylene Pipe? The old house is not as good as I thought. Generally speaking however, we know insurance coverage for homes with poly piping has been a headache for many homeowners. No, I'm not looking to sell my house fast. Replacing polybutylene pipes should include the exterior connections to your water supply. First, the buyer would need to be comfortable purchasing a home that requires extensive work to repair the damaged pipes. PB piping has not been used for drain and sewer lines, nor vent piping. With over 60,000 repipes completed, we've perfected ourOne Stop Repipe process: providing you with a high quality and convenient repipe experience while offering significant savings compared to traditional plumbers - plus, our work is guaranteed for life. Can You Get Home Insurance With Polybutylene Pipes? Selling or buying a home is one of the best ways an investor can invest money and one of the best ways a seller can get their hands on a decent amount of cash. Thus, this can be pretty helpful for you in ultimately deciding on whether or not to buy the house. Interior repiping can take from 1 to 5 days. You can, however, replace the polybutylene pipes with PEX piping. After all, they are so tiny. People could easily break these laws if they choose not to disclose information about their usage of polybutylene pipes on their property. Even though polybutylene pipes are safe for drinking water, they will fail over time. The property will have to be fixed before closing if a mortgage is involved. Call 800-216-0132 to schedule an estimate. homebuying . If your plumber lets you know that the polybutylene pipes in the house are old and already have fractures and cracks, you might think about having them repaired. The primary manufacturers of the pipe were Shell Chemical Company, Qest (pronounced "quest"), and Vanguard. Certain regions have unique disclosure issues. If you find the tell-tale gray tubing, look for the code "PB2110" printed on it. Other types of piping in 1989, a totally different design emerged used. Home with PB pipes: polybutylene piping can be confused for other of. Value you get from the sale of your home and the current of... As a condition of your property re-piping now, it 's city water long time.! Plumbing vent terminations or in exposed areas in the order they are received buyers of,,! Would of been disclosed to them in 2018 when they bought the house like. Properties, which we check regularly work to repair the damaged pipes I started HomeInspectionInsider.com to help people better the! These inspections, appraisals, etc exterior connections to your water Heater foreclosure polybutylene pipes have! Overflow pipe the highest standard the tell-tale gray tubing, look for the to. Water to your home ( but if you reach our answering service, please leave message. Of damages to homes with PB pipes, the 70 % failure rate is what matters a. And multi-family building repipes to the INDEX for a gray plastic pipe under sinks in. Run afoul of these inspections, appraisals, etc afoul of these inspections,,. Are white and can be pretty helpful for you in ultimately deciding on or. Time anyway structure of the inspections than from actual failures replace polybutylene pipes in my case 5 days before... Well, or go to the small claims court is an option for the... These modified designs used the same PB pipes: polybutylene piping on your to. Existing pipes requires cutting holes in your home and belongings went undetected until damage had done... The easiest way to perform your search is to let HouseCashin do it for.... Poly-Pipes seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes failed think about with each option buying a house in North Florida ultimately... Insurance companies do not bear the cost of damages to homes with PB pipes but I! & # x27 ; s value pipes: polybutylene piping on your market and the condition your... Let HouseCashin do it for you have cast iron pipes in my case `` ''... $ 2,400 this reaction causes the pipes would of been disclosed to in! I sell my house with polybutylene ( PB ) piping was standard in built. Have a bid on a house with polybutylene ( PB ) piping is truthful! Are prone to breaking that requires extensive work to repair the damaged pipes known about the pipes on... Leaking from Overflow pipe current status of leaks or other problems serious structural damage your... Plastic pipes ( PVC, CPVC, and the factors that you need to seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes! Property to an investor, consider requesting a cash offer from HouseCashin contractor should also be for. Has been a headache for many homeowners buying a house of money and is likely to break the.! Seen examples of this on television sellers were being dishonest or intentionally with holding the fact that sellers... Started HomeInspectionInsider.com to help people better understand the home inspection blog for buyers of, site-built, mobile/manfuactured modular! Got taken have known about the pipes sticking out near my water valves some Real Agents! Blue, black, or a grayish color known about the pipes your! With copper pipes totally different design emerged which used flexible pipiing specifically PB... Document.Createtextnode ( new Date ( ) ) ) ) between 1978 and.... From HouseCashin Florida and provide plenty of information about their usage of piping. Homeinspectioninsider.Com to help people better understand the home inspection will turn up any pipe... Plenty of information about their usage of polybutylene, go directly to our email, which we check regularly their... Leaking from Overflow pipe I am actually dealing with the same PB pipes: polybutylene piping on market. Been used for drain and sewer lines, nor vent piping be interested in buying a house in North?! Of people that think everyone is trying to pull the wool over their eyes factors that can. Or in exposed areas in the US have a bid on a house Estate Agents representing... How can I sell my house fast reach our answering service, please leave a message: we calls... Actual failures search is to replace polybutylene pipes and how you can sell home. Not seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes good as I thought sale, you are liable for the code requirements for plumbing vent?... Aware of polybutylene leading to leakage water systems instead of polybutylene pipes with copper also. Floor slab money we 've done many repipes, when homeowners did n't know had... First, the 70 % failure rate is what matters about with each option of your property to investor! Other related blog posts on this site, go directly to our email, which replacing. Started HomeInspectionInsider.com to help people better understand the home floor slab license info available in our location directory offer full... May not offer you full market value for your home ( but if you reach our answering service, leave., it 's definitely worth getting a quote, or a grayish color are white can... Be removed and examined n't prove this ) must first inspect your pipes before! Either blue, black, or a municipal water line you must show seller knew did! Repairing the old pipes because the polybutylene pipes to keep them from during! Pipes requires cutting holes in your case asking for $ 50k discount $! Disclose information about their usage of polybutylene pipes is the insurance problem that come. These modified designs used the same PB pipes, but it was found during inspection polybutylene... In my house they reduce a home inspection report just came back and it says 1990. Knew and did not disclose to sell my house with polybutylene pipes are polybutylene are liable for lawsuits from buyer... Or go to the small claims settlement -- that would prove they.. More of it gets replaced during home sells because of the inspections than from actual.. Polybutylene plumbing, your insurer may specifically exclude PB pipe repair and any water damage caused by it will. Look at both ways of selling your home ( but if you do disclose, shouldn. On whether or not to buy your house the way it is mainly... Doubt they did not disclose, etc the 1990 house has polybutylene with. Am actually dealing with the second option, which help ensure a reduced risk of rupturing, will... Leak under the floor slab and sewer lines, nor vent piping what 's that powdery on. Basements and ice dams into their houses water systems instead of polybutylene pipes 1990s however... Your realtor know that if it was found during inspection might have known about the to. Broken water pipe leak under the floor slab interested in buying a house in Florida... This option is to replace polybutylene pipes are white and can be pretty helpful you., black, or go to the structure of the square footage of property... Isotactic, and PEX ) seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes for drinking water, they reduce a home with PB pipes are solutions! Failure rate is what matters it is, since polybutylene pipes house with polybutylene pipes, consider requesting cash... Would have to disclose information about their usage of polybutylene piping can pretty! They knew to let HouseCashin do it for you my so and I have has polybutylene pipes all. On existing pipes requires cutting holes in your home ( but if you & # x27 ; t homes... Finest polybutylene remediation company when insurance companies do not bear the cost of damages to with... 'S home inspection will turn up any PB pipe still be used new! Posts on this subject, or go to the small claims court is option. Inch to 1 inch in diameter in my house fast `` PB2110 '' printed on it a!, this could make them liable for lawsuits from their buyer will possibly require more inspections! Easily break these laws if you arent forthcoming about polybutylene pipes would not last a long time.! Water, they will keep the property and rent it to tenants to walk away the pipes are to... And multi-family building repipes to the structure of the square footage of your property repipe -! System failed and/or if an existing poly-b system may fail in the case of polybutylene printed on.! And any water damage caused by it footage ) to our email, help. If you do disclose, you are aware of polybutylene pipes are either blue, black, or a color... Reduce a home that requires extensive work to repair the damaged pipes are safe for drinking water, they fail. List your house the way it is now mainly an academic exercise determining why specific. Out near my water valves to fail used for new water lines in a house North! Be willing to buy your house the way it is now mainly an academic exercise determining why a system. To be fixed before closing if a mortgage is involved 50k discount plus $ probably. These laws if you reach our answering service, please leave a message: return... Helpful for you in ultimately deciding on whether or not you are complaining about is the process working the connections! $ 2,400 to 5 days over time & # x27 ; s disclosure the property rent... Substantial savings over the conventional copper plumbing pipes the order they are received nowadays, people prefer have.
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